Curse

Palek · Feb 04, 2007, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Introduction

I understand, that heroes while are irrelevant, as and PvE not so that is popular, and Nightfall is far from being at all is, moreover a bias of many players against NPC. Nevertheless it is impossible to recognize, that good heroes strongly simplify PvE. But at observance of the certain conditions. So some supervision (it is far from being statements because heroes - as the black box).

Who are heroes?

Heroes are advanced adjusted henchmen. So first conclusion: if you want to receive the strong assistant, it is necessary to make some efforts. If you will simply take the hero "as is", having brought up up to 20-th level, he will be simply henchmen. Probably from here numerous posts in forums about so stupid heroes. "To bring up" the hero, it is necessary to make almost the same, as for prorolling the usual character. First it is necessary to solve, who is necessary for you. Right at the beginning Nigtfall you receive the hero - necros, the hero - warrior, the hero - monk and the hero - elementalist. With them it is possible to do practically all missions, anybody especially more and is not necessary. I use usually a set monk-prot, MM, ele (itself I play as monk-healer). But is much and other, not less effective sets. To choose heroes it is useful to not put means and time in heroes whom will not use.
Having defined who is necessary for you, we start to grow heroes.
1. The first obvious conclusion - the hero it is necessary rise up to 20-th level. For speed it is possible to do quests with heroes of 20-th level / henchs/ppl, and before reception of the award (XP) to throw out from a party of strong heroes and to put weak. They will receive XP.
2. The hero should be dressed good. Here all is simple. Initially heroes are dressed in armour without bonuses. Its protection automatically grows together with increase in a level of the hero. So I advise to not be too lazy and to buy at once to the hero necessary runes. As attribute, and for armour. What - depends on a profession of the hero. Be not afraid to experiment - as against the character, salvage runes by expert salvage kit at the hero never results in his destruction of armour. The bonus of "cap" automatically change on that attribute to a rune which you will insert into it.
3. It is necessary to arm the hero goodly. If you seriously are going to go with the given hero, "greens" are necessary. As the hero can carry your weapon, even customised. If at you a lot of unused heroes, can use them as storehouse of the weapon - it will not disappear anywhere. Unfortunately, heroes do not have own inventory.
4. It is necessary for the hero find good build. Go for example here. We shall not overlook, that anyone good build have elite skill. Which you should be extracted for your hero, if he not your profession. The others skills or are bought from skills-trainers or undertake as the award from skills-trainers of heroes (though are given absolutely not those ones which it would be desirable more often).

Some notes on selection build:

Specialize! As in any party, specialization is desirable. It is better, that the protector first of all protected, instead of tried still besides to treat. That the warrior go to war, instead of tried to survive due to sickly monk's skills. That healer did not try to fight, but namely heal. That is, if in a party there is a specialized hero, it is not necessary to substitute him fake. Exceptions, certainly are - when at you an incomplete party, it is necessary to get out.
Don't use enchantments. Heroes do not like to support enchantments. If you so need to support them, manually to cast them for the hero and then forbid to use ones.
Remember about favorite skills.... Heroes like skills, which protect them and use them first of all.
If in a party there is a specialized protector, it is better such skills at other heroes to remove.
...unfavorite skills.... There are skills, which heroes flatly refuse to use. It is is found out by practical game. And here nothing can be made - while scripts of heroes to us ArenaNet has not opened;-)
And spammable skills. There are skills, which heroes very much like and use without any measure. For example, Olias very much likes "death nova" and will support it on everything, that as he believes, at death;-). And monk will remove all seen by him hex/conditions, despite of deficiency of energy. And all heroes as soon as possible will be resurrect falling fighters, without dependence from a game situation.
Hero do mistakes. There are also mistakes. For example, for some reason complain, that elementalist does not use fire attunement. Earth attunement uses perfectly. Olias persistently tries to create 11-th minion before exhaustion of a stock of corpses.
Than simply build - than better. The hero - is not the person, he is difficult for learning intellectual actions. But he more abruptly the person on reaction. That is automatic bonder to make of the hero it will not be possible. The hero it will not be simple cast spells in the necessary order. But interaptor from the hero will be great. It is not necessary to try to copy bluntly builds for players. The majority of them are based on so-called combo, that is the certain sequence of actions. If you want to receive the good hero, have patience in experiment with builds.
Bad E-management. From here difficulties with managements of energy, because this uneasy action for the hero. That is he will do something in this direction, but do not hope, that will bring up from him the zealous owner.
Preferably skills in build. If there are no special priorities, the hero is declined to use build from left to right. That is a certain priority is given to the "left" spells.
Understand game situation 1. Senselessly to shout: " What hero stupid why he does not use skill X, and instead of use Y?! ". And it because the hero in another way, not how the men, sees a game situation. For example, if you on elementalist а will hang up many spells of near fight and all a pair distant, he go into in a thick of fight, it is possible at all not having involved distant. Because his AI has calculated, that so he will do the greater dmg.
Understand game situation 2.The hero sees the current situation and sees it well. But he does not count a situation forward, he does not have memory. Therefore the protector will be cast the protection during fight, instead of up to. And elementalist knows nothing about for example that that margonite is armed powerful AoE with a spell and he should be cast first of all.
Understand game situation 3. Or that for that turn to go very dangerous. For this purpose you have tags on radar - limit activity of the heroes.
Must yr hero attack? By the way, do not forget, that the hero can be in three conditions: attacking, protective and avoid from fight. And, if for example, your active protector for some reason not use attacking spells, can he by default in "avoid from fight"?
Train yr hero! The hero can be trained. This disputable statement, but is noticed, that if you in the necessary situation manually cast the necessary spell for the hero, he remembers a situation and further may to repeat ones.
Use suitable hero. Some professions at heroes as though "сongenital". The same is disputable, but is noticed, for example, that the best MM is Olias, and to make from Dunkoro good smitter difficultly.
Give hero time to regenerate. If you do your PvE's task quickly, use part of screen for heroe's scrollbar. Try to enter to combat, when all heroes have max health and energy. Most of heroes without energy are useless ballast.
About lightbringer rank. Heroes have the same lightbringer rank, as you. That is, for example, on 8 rank you and your heroes will have +40% dmg to attack against Abbadon's servants and -8 dmg from them. Unfortunately, lightbringer gaze they cannot use.

How many are necessary heroes? As I already spoke, with party MM/prot/ele (+ you as healer) it is possible to do the majority of quests / missions. Better less good heroes, than a heap not clear whom. Like all is end. Once again I repeat: all this supervision, not statements, all disputably also requires checks.

Main conclusion:

If you want to have the strong heroes, develop ones!. Except for some professions, the strong hero is now better on the average than 99 % of casual players. The party of strong heroes is as though "cheat" which ArenaNet has presented to us. Use, while the do not nerf

Taala · Feb 04, 2007, 10:33 PM // 22:33

I'm not reading that wall of text.

Across The Battle · Feb 04, 2007, 10:34 PM // 22:34

I read about half of that and it look like it could be pretty useful its just so painful to read. Try using bolds and the enter key a bit to make it easier to read

Palek · Feb 05, 2007, 02:44 AM // 02:44

My party's builds

I know, that I said nothing new in my post for advanced players. I wrote it for novice, who tried to use of heroes, but think, that they are "too stupid". So I post here my builds, that I used for long time.

Monk/E, healer's boon healer, player

HP 16/DF 15/PP 3
health 420/energy 59
weapon: staff of forgotten (energy +20/HCR 20%/health +30)
own opinion
For what: heal of party and minions.

build: [skill]Ethereal light[/skill][skill]Dwayna's Kiss[/skill][skill]Healing Whisper[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Heal Party[/skill][skill]Heal Area[/skill][skill]Renew Life[/skill][skill]Healer's Boon[/skill]
Notes: You must support healer's boon always. Under healer's boon and HP 16 Ethereal Light not easily interrupted and do +206 health. Use Dwayna's Kiss on anybody under enchantment (You must have protector in your party, so no problems with this). Healing Whisper do +204 health. This is reserve skill, you can replace it on your favourite. Heal Party do +126 health for 1 sek (+48 to you) - use it under AoE attack. However, try to use Glyph of Lesser Energy vefore and you'll heal +2112 health for 2-3 sek and 5 energy! (126*8*2 + 48*2). Heal Area do +285 health - use it before and after (not in continue) fight on minions. Using 2 superior runes (healing/divine) require superior vigour rune and weapon with +health. No necessity in it without superior divine rune.This build for player, not for hero! See below heal-build for hero.
Changes: Of course, you don't need "heal of area" without MM in party. You get out "heal of party" in small (less, than 4 members). In both cases you will not need "Glyph of Lesser Energy"

Necromancer/any, MM, Olias, hero

DM 16/SR 13/BM 3
health 495/energy 45
Weapon: The nightbringer (energy+10/HCR 20%/HCR DM 36%/Healhh +30)
guard
You need bloodstained isignia rune
For what: main dmg-dealer and protect casters by minions

Build: [skill]Animate Flesh Golem[/skill][skill]Animate Shambling Horror[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill][skill]Blood of the Master[/skill][skill]Deathly Chill[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Deathly Swarm[/skill][skill]Dark Bond[/skill]
Notes: MM badly use "death nova" and "putrid explosion". So I failed to make good "minions-bomber" from hero-necromancer. IMHO, any MM must have some skills for dmg-deal without minions.
Changes: Briefly, you can use ordinary MM-build, Olias have no problems to use it. Main skills here are 2-4 "animate minions" spells and "Blood of Master".

Elementalist/any, Earth-sandstorm, Zhed Shadowhoof, hero

M 16/ES 13
health 480/energy 88
weapon: Galgord's Stone Staff (energy +20/HCT EM 20%/HCR 20%/enchantment 20%)
Fight
For what: big dmg-dealer for groups of mobs; main dmg-dealer without minions

Build: [skill]Earth Attunement[/skill][skill]Aura of Restoration[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Sandstorm[/skill][skill]Dragon's Stomp[/skill][skill]Glowstone[/skill][skill]Obsidian Flame[/skill][skill]Aftershock[/skill]
Notes: I know, that Earth Magic is not so good, as fire magic. However now AI use earth attunement correctly, but fire/air ones. Hero use 2 first skills rightly. But for right use sandstorm you need some "to train" him. Before group of mobs cast glyph and next soon as possible sandstorm and may be dragon's stomp. After 10-15 trainings, Zhed will be use combo solo.
Changes: You can use more "solo" skills instead AoE attack in weak areas with small groups of mobs. I failed to make good "close-dmg" elementalist, because Zhed die so quickly in heap of foes.

Monk/Mesmer, active-protector-E-management, Dunkoro, hero

PP 16/IM 12/DF 4
health 465/energy 47
guard
weapon: Sadi's Benediction (energy +15/HSR 20%/enchantment 20%/energy +5 /under enchanted/)
For what: Protect party, especially from AoE attack.

Build: [skill]Channeling[/skill][skill]Power Drain[/skill][skill]Leech Signet[/skill][skill]Zealous Benediction[/skill][skill]Guardian[/skill][skill]Aegis[/skill][skill]Protective Spirit[/skill][skill]Inspired Hex[/skill]
Notes: Strange and contentious build, I'm agree. But:
1. We remember, that our party have good player-healer. So protector do not need big DF or divine boon's for healing.
2. Hero do not use life bond/life barrier correctly.
But which elite skill is the best? I don't know. Hero use "Zealous Benediction" badly - 8/10 under more than 50% health. However, this skill is better protect, than "Life Sheath". If hero cannot use good complicated combo, let's use some simple skills and we take him more energy for it! You see, that big inspiration magic is used basically for energy-management, not for dmg-deal. In PvE there are not dangerous hex and ordinary there are not dangerous mobs. So we not need to use any hex/conditions removers and ressurects.
Besides of our healer have resurrect and Dwayna's Kiss spell, which work better on hexed party's members. But you have to use ones in hard and elite missions.
Changes: A lot of. I still can not find suitable build for protector. May be the best solution... don't use protector at all! Replace protector on dmg-dealer - in majority of locations healer is enough.

Monk/Me, WoH healer, Tankora, hero

HP 16/DF 13/IM 3
health 475/energy 47
avoid combat
weapon: Brohn's holy road + The Stonehart (energy+12/HCT 10%/HSR HP 36%/HP+1 20%)
For what: healer-hero

Build: [skill]Word of Healing[/skill][skill]Dwayna's Kiss[/skill][skill]Healing Touch[/skill][skill]Words of Comfort[/skill][skill]Heal Other[/skill][skill]Inspired Hex[/skill][skill]Heal Party[/skill][skill]Restore Life[/skill]
Notes: Simply heal build.
Changes: A lot of. Basically, hero-healer can use player's build without big problems.

That is base team: healer/elementalist/protector|degen/MM. With this team I made all quests/missions in 3 parts of GW (in hard, elite and last missions add henchmens) . I don't splurge. Simply I want to say: use heroes properly and you'll be much more strong and have no troubles in PvE. Welcome to Guild Wars!

P.S. I dislike warriors (dervishs) - minions are better. And seldom take rangers - elementalist do more dmg (Bone Fiend can attack at range). Unfortunately I know small about paragons. Of course, in special cases you will need special heroes. I place below 2 heroes, that I sometimes use, but I don't test themes constrainedly as above heroes.

Necromancer/E, degen, Master of Whisper, hero

BM 16/SR 13
health 470/energy 51
Fight
Weapon: Gordac's Needle + Gordac's Hook Blood (energy+17/HCR BM 36%/BM+1 20%)
For what: good dmg-dealer on strong armour foes

Build:[skill]Life Transfer[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Unholy Feast[/skill][skill]Shadow Strike[/skill][skill]Blood of the Aggressor[/skill][skill]Plague Sending[/skill][skill]Life Siphon[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill]
Notes: I prefer elementalist for dmg-dealer, so didn't test this build carefully.
Changes: Good change "life siphon" on "Spoil Victor" vs strong casters.

Ranger/Me, interruptor, Margrid the Sly, hero

E 16/WS 7/M 11/IM 6
health 465/energy 35
Fight
weapon: Rotwing recurve bow (lengthens poison by 33%/HP+30/Energy+5)
For what: interruption

Build:[skill]Magebane Shot[/skill][skill]Distracting Shot[/skill][skill]Savage Shot[/skill][skill]Read the Wind[/skill][skill]Power Drain[/skill][skill]Web of Disruption[/skill][skill]Troll Unguent[/skill][skill]Channeling[/skill]
Notes: I dislike interuptor, because I have only 3 hero and have to replace good dmg-dealer or protector on one. But sometimes it's usefull. I share attribute poins at 4 attribute, because this hero do need good interrupt, but damage.
Changes: I didn't note rise of effectively interruption after some changing. You can test it himself. And you can use Me as fast interruptor with Fast Casting, Mantra of Recovery and inspiration skills.

FoxBat · Feb 05, 2007, 04:48 AM // 04:48

I appreciate the effort, but I really don't like the monk builds. I wouldn't trust the AIs with heal party, unless you want to disable and manually cast it (which isn't so bad since you don't have to target it) Light of Deliverance on the other hand is much safer. Though maybe you could do a n/mo heal party/heal other spammer if you have a MM around. The prot monk looks especially wacky... what does he cast often enough to abuse channeling really? And again they seem to overuse prot spirit, so I don't trust them, unless maybe you are in a difficult area where it will always be useful (like DoA) Gift of Health would go good on that monk, its just as good as when PvP players use it, and Shield of Absorption is way too uber to pass up. Also restore life is pretty worthless, res chant, rebirth, or even renew life is better. Usually I use rebirth and have it disabled, then can manually use to recover from bad situations outside of aggro.

Channeling on the ranger hero? Why? You probably have one too many interrupts there anyway and could stand some defense or damage...

Palek · Feb 05, 2007, 05:29 AM // 05:29

- Light of Deliverance at 16 HP do +85 to party member under 80% health for 5 energy and 1 sek. This is elite spell. Heal of party under healer's boon do +126 to any member for 15 energy and 1 sek. Plus bonus in heal and speed to any monk's spell. Especially heal of areas. Plus the best under glyph of lesser energy. I said, that monk's build for player, big party and with MM-hero. I play as monk about 6 month and tested a lot of builds. Now it is the best for me. As for healer-monk, as I said, you can use any healer-build, AI of monk is good. However, in any case, I doubt, that LoD is better WoH. Because AoE dmg is often irregular - part of party receive critical damage, but other - nothing. So monk waste a lot of energy (more important - time, recharge time 5 sek) , if try to heal party by LoD. Other "solo" healer's skill is worse WoH. I think, in poor locations difference doesn't matter. Unfortunately, Ai use "healer's boon" build not good.
- Build for prot is poor, I'm agree. But after hundreds and hundreds hours of game I didn't find better for me. Of course, for dangerous locations, big groups of foes, f.e. Realms of Torment.
- I very seldom use any resurrect in PvE and like namely "renew life" or res chant, no rebirth. Rebirth is the best "last chance" in hard mission with ppl. But in PvE with heroes you resurrect in the centre of combat with 0 energy, poor health, disable skills. Is it good? Manually disable rebirth from hero, retire and then use it out of aggro? May be, very seldom, in very hard situation... which necessary to avoid. As I'm playing as monk in party with live players, of course, I use rebirth.
- About interruptor: I know not so much about this build. I simply take ranger with interruptor's skills and test in Realms of Torment. After about 20-30 hours of experiments I found 3 things:
1. This build is good.
2. Good dmg-dealer is better interruptor in majority of areas.
3. Interruptor/dmg-dealer is worse, than "clear" interruptor. Because I don't need poor dmg from ranger (I have 5-10 minions for it and elementalist). I need to cancel AoE attack from foes.